Eminence Red White and Blues Vs Celestion G12 80

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Eminence RWB vs Celistion G12 65 Heritage

  • Thread starter Meenrod
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  • #1
Hi all,

Any thoughts on Red, White & Blues 12" vs a G12 65 Heritage for a 50w JCM 800 1 x 12" combo and a 1933 1 x 12" cab? Play mostly classic and 80's rock.

How would the higher power rating of the RWB compare to the G12 in terms of sounds?

Current speaker is very trebly and bright, hence the need for a change.

Many thanks.
Meenrod

thetragichero
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  • #2
i changed two of the G12Ls in my cab with red white and blues this weekend for the same reason as you and i can tell you there is a noticeable improvement (i play strats so the celestions were OBSCENELY bright even with the treble on 0)
i am planning to replace the other two G12Ls with black powders once i free of the funds, for what it's worth
MartyStrat54
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  • #3
Well you obviously know a thing or two about speakers, or else you wouldn't have known about the Red, White and Blues. They are well known for their ability to smooth out bright or harsh sounding amps. And yes, they are a high powered speaker at 120WRMS. However, they do not sound like a G12-65. If you want one of those in an Eminence, it's the Tonespotter and it is only available in 8 ohms.

The G12-65 is not going to help with the brightness, so if you can't control it with the amp and guitar, then I would recommend the Red, White and Blues.

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  • #4
I don't know a thing about speakers Marty, I'm taking your advice from a previous post from yesterday!

Thanks for taking the time to answer. My foremost worry is the brightness, so I appreciate the advice that a G12-65 won't help. My main concern about the RWB is their price... I know it sounds odd but I'm concerned they are too cheap! I know, I know...

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  • #5
i could certainly sell the ones i just broke in at a higher cost, if that would make you feel more comfortable
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  • #6
Nice try!

What impact does a higher power rating e.g. 120w have when played through a 50w amp? Breaks up later?

MartyStrat54
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  • #7
It's just a bonus in your case with a smaller amp. In a 112 scenario, it's perfect.
It would work well with a 100 watt amp.
Micky
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  • #8
Nice try!

What impact does a higher power rating e.g. 120w have when played through a 50w amp? Breaks up later?

In a word, yes.

Marty is the expert here, but the lower wattage speakers tend to add a bit of speaker distortion to your tone. Especially if you drive them hard to that point. Some people strive for that, I imagine that is why the 25 watt celestions are so desirable. Pushing the speakers to the limit can get incredible tone, but you neeed to be careful you don't blow them up or abuse them.

I wanted to get away from that, I actually wanted more purity and accuracy from my speakers and that is why I went with 150 watt hi-power Eminence stuff in my 4X12 cabs. I wanted pure tube distortion, not 'colored' or slightly distorted sound. For that I have a couple older speakers in a 2X12 that I can drive hard if I wanna.

Despite their low cost Eminence speakers are great! They make an equivalent for almost every Celestion, just ask Marty for advice and you won't be steered down the wrong road.

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  • #9
Thanks for the kind words Micky.

The art of running speakers on the brink of destruction is probably over with, except for a few cases. In the past, if you played a Marshall, it was probably a 1959 cranked up for overdrive. Guys were using those early Greenback speakers. In a full stack, you had more protection, but a lot of guys used half stacks. This arrangement tested the speakers whenever they were used.

So much has changed since the late 60's and the 70's. Guitar players used to crank the shit out of their amps. The distortion they got was from the amps and the speakers. I'm here to tell you that a lot of Greenbacks got blown to pieces.

The trend now is moderate or high wattage speakers in a cab. I tested some last night (Monday) and I can't get over how stiff the speakers were. They were rated at 150 watts RMS or 300W Program Power. These were the Swamp Thangs and I use quite a few of these. They are designed for sealed back applications. Anyway, this is where it all has headed. People are still playing though JBL's, Altec's and EV's. All of these are high powered, low distortion speakers. Like Micky said, if you distort your preamp, use a pedal or over drive your amp, these speakers will reproduce the sound very accurately "and" safely.

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  • #10
i've read that back in the day they used totake a razor to some of the speakers to get that "fuzz" sound
while it sounds nuts from a financial perspective, it's pretty god damn creative!
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  • #12
The G12-65 is not going to help with the brightness, so if you can't control it with the amp and guitar, then I would recommend the Red, White and Blues.

Weird. I have a cab loaded with G12-65s and that cab is the only one that helps tame bright amps.

The G12-65s are actually known for this. Perhaps you're confusing the G12-65 with another speaker, Marty?

MartyStrat54
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  • #13
Weird. I have a cab loaded with G12-65s and that cab is the only one that helps tame bright amps.

The G12-65s are actually known for this. Perhaps you're confusing the G12-65 with another speaker, Marty?


Didn't your G12-65's come in an old 800 cab? I thought I remember you saying that before?

I am making my comments based on G12-65's I have personally used and the Eminence clones. Although broken in on a signal generator, they still may not be 100 percent broken in.

The G12-65 is a 5KHz speaker, with a peak at 5KHz. It has a lot of energy still, before it rolls off. The Tonespotter is a 5.5KHz speaker. It has a similar response as the G12-65, but with extended high end. The Red, White and Blues is sinking like a rock at 4.5KHz.

If you have read or heard somewhere that the G12-65 is known to tame harsh amps, I haven't heard of it. But I will say that you have a lot of Celestion background and I'm not doubting your word.

Again, I based my opinion on the speakers I actually used. I experimented with the G12-65's in a 212 over sized sealed back cab. If anything, the enhanced bottom end from the big cab would help smooth out the highs. The G12-65's still had extremely clean highs over the bass. What I would call a sparkly top end.

The Tonespotters (G12-65's) were matched to Black Powders in a customized 900 1960A cab. (Full details on the Speaker thread.) I tried two other pairs of speakers with the Black Powders and the Tonespotters sounded the best. I have the Black Powders on the bottom and the Tonespotters on the top. This is the cab that I am playing my JMP 2203 through. It sounds great.

Any info that you have in regards to the G12-65 or other Celestion speakers, I would appreciate it if you posted it on the speaker thread. I've found very little info from Celestion describing their speakers.

00jett
  • #14
Iv compared my rwb's to my buddies 1265 weber clones. The rwb does have a bit more high end roll of for those bright amps that might need it. The low end was similar, but were were using different sized cabs so I would imagine that would have alot to do with it.. Tho the speakers may be similer they do seem to have different characteristics. My ears tell me there is a difference in the upper mid tones as well. Both great speakers. RWB's are fairly efficient too.

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Source: https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/eminence-rwb-vs-celistion-g12-65-heritage.17276/

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